Ann:
(Heide) Has anyone read the book?
Yes, I was just rereading it on the way to and from Cape Cod. The movie kept amazingly close to the novella. It helped that the book is only 100 pages.

Laura:
I read the book. I found the children to be wonderful characters who surprisingly help heal a very wounded Tom Birkin.

Evelyn:
I read it too. Found it helped to fill in the blanks in the film. Thought the film was v. faithful to the book. I am getting it back this week from Library Loan.

Heide:
The book is on my reading list. I'd like to hear how the book is different/similar to the film. Is there more about Vinny?

Moon is supposed to be homosexual but that's not clear from the film except from the one line the man says to Tom in a message he wants to be delivered to Moon but I have difficulty making it out. Something about "Bugger his bum." Is there more pertaining to Moon's homosexuality in the book?

The apple symbolism is very strong in the film. Is it conveyed in even more depth in the book?

How is Tom described in the book? Can you picture Colin from the description?

With what emotion are the people on the train looking at Tom? Guilt? Pity? Distaste? It's not immediately obvious that he was in the war. A twitch and stammer do not automatically brand you as a veteran though there were so many "intact" wounded men from the war wandering around, he may not have been an uncommon sight even in Oxgodby.

(Laura) I found the children to be wonderful characters who surprisingly help heal a very wounded Tom Birkin.
I love the Ellerbeck children in the film and can see how they are comforting to Tom as they sit quietly in the pew with their gramophone watching him work on the mural. I felt badly for Cathy when Tom pretended he wasn't in his belfry at the end of the movie when she comes to call. I hope she couldn't smell his cigarette and know he was up there.

Evelyn:
As soon as the book comes from Library Loan, I'll answer your questions, Heide, quoting the "chapter and verse." I read it over a year ago. Tremendous. Actually, the film also served to make the book more enjoyable.

Ann:
For a long time, I thought the book that Birkin pressed the flower in was just any old book, but after about my 10th time watching the film (which gets better each time), I now think that it is the same book the Old Birkin is carrying at the very end of the story.

The old man is carrying a book on architecture that he wrote and, when the flower is pressed, you can see a diagram of different columns. In other words, he presses the flower in a book he has not written yet. I really like the circularity of that image.

Heide:
The first time I saw this film, I didn't think I could bear watching it again but now that I own it, I watch it again and again. I thought it was painfully sad at first but now don't find it so. What saves me is seeing that as an old man, Tom is well (meaning healthy), perhaps not prosperous but he still finds meaning and takes pleasure in what he did. Beautifully filmed, beautifully, subtly acted. Rife with symbolism which I love to try to decipher.

I hope some people have thoughts on the questions I'd like to bring up. Some I've decided on the answer, some I have not.

Why does Tom resist Alice? I don't think it's because of Vinny. Does he think she is that unapproachable for someone as damaged as he considers himself to be? Is it his sense of morality? We know she's Eve tempting him. Tempting him from where? He's not exactly in the garden of Eden. She's practically quivering, she wants him so much. What keeps him from kissing her in the belfry?

One of my favorite scenes is when Alice comes to see the mural and she climbs up the scaffolding. He's so eager and happy she's there. My favorite look is when she starts to descend the ladder and for a moment she pauses and they're at eye level. He looks so anxious as if he doesn't want her to leave.

Love the scene in the woods when he says, "Many men would say that you were beautiful, Mrs. Keach." If it was going to happen, I think it would have happened there. Is he humiliated that she saw him so vulnerable after the shot rang out?

More and more scenes I love. In town when Alice sees Tom watching her through the window of the pub. She looks at him, quickly, guiltily looks at her husband, then looks back at Tom. They walk away and he gazes after her.

(Ann) The old man is carrying a book on architecture that he wrote
Thanks, Ann, I had no clue. I knew it couldn't be a bible. What makes you say he wrote the book? I will re-watch, of course, but I never saw that.

Cheryl:
(Laura)...children to be wonderful characters who surprisingly help heal...Birkin.
Interesting about the children in the film I was so annoyed with them.

(Heide) Moon is supposed to be homosexual...one line...difficulty making it out....is there more...in the book?
I wondered when (1) he offers to Birkin, "Just haven't met the right girl yet," which is a pretty standard line, especially in the past, and (2) he doesn't seem interested in Alice or any other women.

But really the only other clue to me, and the thing I liked most about Branagh's understatement, was this: (3) Birkin meets the angry officer in town and, in the next scene, Moon offers Birkin milk (for his tea, I assume) by the tent. The way Branagh sits, legs tucked under and hands folded in his lap demurely, was new to us. They discuss Alice and Moon reverses himself, agreeing that maybe it's not so bad that Birkin hasn't seen her very much.

Moon says something about giving "it" up, the two of them, for the easy life. Birkin toasts to the easy life. But Moon doesn't toast back. It makes sense to give up sex to make things simpler, but apparently Moon can't or won't, which is what happened to get him taken off the front. The next scene, I think, in the tavern, Moon says he went around the bend a little six months before the end, losing "chaps he cared for." Moon may try to veil his history while referring to general horrors of war, but given the earlier scenes in this sequence we hear them with a sexual twist: he was willing to risk his reputation for sex/love; or he used sex/love to help him survive and got caught; or he realized that who you care for may be dead this afternoon. How ever it was, he can't toast to giving it up. So, visual cue: the way Moon's sitting; accompanying story development: sequence (of scenes) about Moon's private life, which we've known nothing of till now.

(Heide) didn't think I could bear watching it again...painfully sad at...as an old man...he still finds meaning and takes pleasure in what he did.
This, like most of CF's movies, make me smoke. All that longing! When Alice said to him he'd found what he was looking for, I thought, what a wishful/mean thing to say. But with Old Birkin's happiness at returning to the church and remembering, I suppose it was true. It might not have been what I wanted him to have, but it was what he'd come for.

(Heide) Why does Tom resist Alice? ...kissing her in the belfry?
Much to my dismay, she can't do anything; she's the vicar's wife. He's been as open with her as he can, and she hasn't stepped the least out of bounds, so can he really do anything more than he did? What can he offer her? She has a husband and home and life, and he has a wife, war wounds, and not much else. He's (masterfully) inarticulate; she nods in agreement/understanding; but she proves to be not the kind of woman who's going to step out of her big house (however empty it is). Now she probably never will. But that doesn't make ME feel any better :) You just want her to say something, anything. But there I am, suffering right along with him.

Sofie:
AMITC is one of my favorite CF films. I agree with Heide about the wonderful symbolism. Restoration of the painting as well as his life. Scene of hell and his view of war. When he first sees Alice, next scene he is uncovering an angel.

When I read Heide's question about why he doesn't make his move on Alice in the belfry, I watched it again. In the scene before he confronts the vicar and I think he gains sympathy for him. He also knows what it's like to have a wife be unfaithful and doesn't want to inflict that pain on another. The healing experience has given him back his own moral agency and the desire NOT to hurt or destroy others. I'd love to hear more of everyone's opinions.

Bethan:
I think that your interpretation of why Tom holds back from Alice, despite the obvious pain to both of them, is very perceptive. There's a lot I would like to say about AMITC (when time permits); it is undoubtably one of my favourite CF films and one which I can watch and rewatch.

The ending I find almost unbearably moving. It is the music, the juxtaposition of the young Birkin and his older ravaged self, the poignancy of the old man reliving his memories, and the heartrending fact that he has obviously never again found love. He carries the book with the pressed flower, which Alice gave to him on the day in the woods when he nearly declared his love for her. TEP didn't move me one jot (except poor sweet Geoffrey!)...this I find difficult to watch.

Evelyn:
(Sofie) He also knows what it's like to have a wife be unfaithful and doesn't want to inflict that pain on another. The healing experience has given him back his own moral agency and the desire NOT to hurt or destroy others.
You have given us a v. poignant reason for his repression in the belfry!!

Does anyone else see Alice as a temptress and not so angelic? Fondling those apples...biting one...lots of smoldering looks...almost assaulting him.

Great cast!

Heide:
Two very good points to ponder as to why Tom doesn't take Alice in the belfry:

(Cheryl) What can he offer her? She has a husband and home and life, and he has a wife, war wounds, and not much else.
(Sofie) He also knows what it's like to have a wife be unfaithful and doesn't want to inflict that pain on another.
Though Tom gained strength during his month in the country (was it only a month?), he seems to feel inadequate in Alice's presence. Doesn't his stutter return when she is near him? And he is a kind and thoughtful man who feels Vinny's desertion strongly.

(Evelyn) Does anyone else see Alice as a temptress and not so angelic?
Good point, Evelyn. Despite the lighting, Alice is no angel. Especially felt this when Tom comes to the house to collect his payment. First she shows Tom all the empty rooms of the house. Her voice is trembling with repressed emotion (anger?). "Can be quite oppressive. Gives me nightmares sometimes." IMO, the rooms are a symbol of the emptiness of her marriage and she seems quite eager to show Tom this. Then when they arrive in the room where her husband is, she seems to be goading Keach. "The rooms, we don't know how to fill them, do we?" Keach seems almost cowed by his wife. What is going on here? The undercurrents are so strong.

And then we have the apple scenes. The way she sniffs it and rubs it with her hands, smells her hands. Yeah, she learned it from her father but it's very suggestive and is making the apple very tempting to poor Tom.

Sofie:
(Heide) the rooms are a symbol of the emptiness of her marriage. She seems to be goading Keach.
I also saw her obvious intentions toward Tom in this scene. Her offer of showing him the way through the wood in front of her husband? PLEASE!! And she didn't mention that she had seen the painting because she probably didn't go there to see it as much as to see him. Or she might have been too flustered after the meeting to want to bring it up.

After making Tom aware of the emptiness of her married life she gives him a rose. She is all silky and sweet, and he seems to be hanging on her every word whereas with others he is guarded.

Evelyn:
(Heide) Keach seems almost cowed by his wife. What is going on here? The undercurrents are so strong.
I think the Reverend Keach is impotent. That would explain the emptiness of the marriage and her "hots" for Tom.

But what is the symbolism of that lone piece of furniture...that in-laws bought at an auction?? Does that represent Rev. Keach...all alone playing his violin in that empty room?

Laura:
I do own the book; I read it about two years ago. Moon is more of a homosexual in the book than they portray him in the movie. Tho' the guy who sees Birkin in the cafe in town mentions that Moon "buggered the batboy" and the award he received wasn't a well-respected decision, in his opinion.

Cheryl:
(Heide) seems to be goading Keach. "The rooms, we don't know how to fill them, do we?" Keach seems almost cowed by his wife.
(Evelyn) But what is the symbolism of that lone piece of furniture...auction?? Does that represent Rev. Keach...violin in that empty room?
Keach doesn't invite Birkin to stay in his house at the very beginning, never considers that an option. Birkin remarks during Keach's sermon, what about me (having no bed)? Alice started her relationship with him by saying it didn't seem right for him to be sleeping in the belfry when they were in their beds. Moon asks what Keach has done for Birkin, which is nothing. Alice makes an opening you could drive a truck through for Keach to invite him stay, and Keach doesn't. Throughout, Keach's lack of charity. And lack of relationship, connection—he wants only to listen to himself; he doesn't even imagine visitors will come anymore. Alice wants Birkin and Keach to know that it's ok with her for Birkin to move in, which everyone knows would be a disaster.

Alice points out the mystery thing, in the course of talking about emptiness and filling. That piece seems to symbolize her desperation with Keach (piece of something else, don't know what it is, no one wanted it, doesn't do anything, but at least it was something). And maybe Birkin, who might be something for her to fill her emptiness with.

(Sofie) she didn't mention that she had seen the painting because she probably didn't go there to see it as much as to see him
And maybe to keep it between themselves, to pointedly exclude Keach.

One of my favorite themes is when Birkin talks about being a restorer—"too much and some chap disappears, not enough and someone doesn't make it back from 500 years ago." By the time he leaves he's uncovered those who around him are, by not forcing but also by not resisting. Had he pushed, Alice might have changed, and that's not what he does. He serves the Great Painter, cleaning so you can see what's there, but doesn't consider himself an artist to create or effect some change. He's horrified by the idea of touching up something he finds.

Also, Alice is not the only one to underscore the kind of man Keach is—he does himself. In the last monologue when he talks about people not being religious and not being moved by the practices, it's so painful to see him looking for his own spiritual satisfaction through other people's behavior. What a walled-off man.

Heide:
(Evelyn) I think the Reverend Keach is impotent.
Cha-cha-cha! Interesting point. We know he is impotent as a minister. I don't have his dialogue handy but he complains bitterly to Tom about his congregation, they're not moved by him, he's only wanted at funerals, etc. A signal about his marriage too?

(Sofie) And she didn't mention that she had seen the painting because she probably didn't go there to see it as much as to see him.
Love the guilty looks on both Tom and Alice's face when Keach expresses surprise that she has already seen the painting. They hadn't even done anything other than "lusting in their hearts."

(Cheryl) By the time he leaves he's uncovered those who around him are, by not forcing but also by not resisting. Had he pushed, Alice might have changed, and that's not what he does.
He wouldn't even have needed to push much. She would have come with a whistle. But yes, she would have changed and as you said earlier, she is a wife, has a home. What kind of woman would she have become if she had given up that comfortable life? But we want her to.

I'm always questioning even my own convictions about the story and that's why I love to read others' views even if I don't always agree with them. At their best, these film discussions give me new insight into the stories and I love to see the collaboration.

But to get to the less lofty images, how about Tommy boy working in the grave? Oomph. He's sweaty, he's dirty, those braces are off, that shirt is hanging out. Love to see him get physical.

Don't mind looking at the shot of him from above when the bells go off on his first Sunday in the belfry. He's lying there (love that undershirt), looking so long, lean and lanky.

Evelyn:
I received AMITC today and read it. So in the next few days I'll answer questions from the book. Heide, Sophie, Cheryl, Ann, Bethan , you were all correct in your assumptions. The jacket of the book has a review: "a small tale of lost love is also a hymn about art and the compensating joy of the artist, both in giving and receiving."

(Heide) Is there more about Vinny in the book?
Not much.

"I told him [Moon] about Vinny and that she'd gone off with another chap. I didn't tell him that she'd almost certainly bedded down with other men whilst I was overseas. Nor that she left me once before." (p.62)

Earlier, he remarks that "Vinny had quality....look where it got me."

When he gets her letter at the end: "Heaven knows how she had learnt where I was, but it was from Vinny: she wanted me home again. There were other things too but that's what it amounted to—she wanted me back. I had no illusions. She would go off again, would come back again. And I should be there." (p.110)

(Heide) How is Tom described in the book
Written by Tom as a flashback, so no physical description . But he says he is 26, Keach 30, Alice 19 or 20. Moon is 26.

Sgt Milburn: "Last time I saw you [Birkin] they were carting you off...shell-shock wasn't it?...Not many of you chaps came through." (p.90)

Tomorrow: Discussion of hell with Alice. Moon's homosexuality. With Alice in the belfry. 

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