Obviously said rather tongue-in-cheek! But my thoughts exactly! Maybe this would be a good starter for the discussion! 

Oh, and as you may have guessed, I'm not very keen on Rafe! 

Nan:
(Bethan) Oh, and as you may have guessed, I'm not very keen on Rafe!
I have to say, I like him. It's not his fault he got the better part. 

Arami:
He also said, "It's a film about five people and I'm not one of them." 

Wanda:
"I found myself sitting there with this incredibly passionate love story unfolding and thinking to myself, well, I don't see what's so moving about it, it doesn't turn me on."
Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm willing to give it another go. I might actually find the romance in it this time ;-) I did enjoy the Hana/Kip story line the first time. 

Karen:
You all know I'm on record as disliking this highly overrated movie. But there is one little scene I like. The lizardy, pencil-legged guy is nowhere to be *seen* 

Heide:
People feel as passionately (or dispassionately) about this movie as they do about 1000 Acres. I actually like this film (and I'm not ashamed to say I liked 1000 Acres too) though there were parts I hated. I'll just stick to the Colin scenes too. 

(Bethan) I've just found the full Colin quote...etc.
Thanks for the quote. Isn't there another one? Something about Ralph getting all the girls. He's (CF) never going to let that happen again? What a funny, self-effacing sweetie he is. 

Layla:
Did anyone notice how thoroughly entranced he looked in that scene by the fire when his wife had finished telling her story and he was speculating approvingly. This guy is just entirely too handsome. The range of expressions on his face during that scene was simply luscious and so rich in subtext. 

Oh, you meant discuss the actual film. Well, in that case, why on earth did that stupid woman cheat on that lovely man? I didn't even know I was watching Colin when I first saw it, but I didn't understand the attraction there. What's-his-name-lizard was rude to her, cold toward her, did horrible things like return her cave drawing. They had nothing at all in common. The whole beginning of the movie I thought she hated him and then suddenly they were in bed. What? 

Okay, so he wrote some poetic references to her in his journal but really! With a sweet, warm, utterly charming man at home who adored her, where is the logic? Anyway, her husband was ever so much cuter. And so charming. And really great to her. And looked awfully squeezable, especially in that flight jacket! 

Winter:
(Layla) why on earth did that stupid woman cheat on that lovely man?
I loved TEP, but I see your point. I cannot imagine jumping into bed with someone whom I've known for only 5 minutes, knowing that such a caring, devoted, loving husband was there for me and always will be there! The best scene which conveys this is during the Christmas party, where he's dressed like Santa and goes looking for her after she's done the deed with Mr. Lizard Legs. I just about melted when he called her his "little sausage" and gathered her up in his arms. 

Layla:
(Winter) I cannot imagine jumping into bed with someone whom I've known for only 5 minutes
Exactly. There is an element of pure friendship in a good marriage (in their case, "since we were children") and, even though one might cheat on a husband, to betray your best friend at the same time, well, that would take a pretty awful person. The enticement would have to be far greater than anything I saw in TEP, even if I did think the Count was sexy. And our dear boy's character certainly was loving and devoted. 

Arami:
(Layla) why on earth did that stupid woman cheat on that lovely man?
She simply didn't love him. 

(Layla) I didn't understand the attraction there. What's-his-name-lizard was rude to her, cold toward her, did horrible things...They had nothing at all in common and then suddenly they were in bed.
The thrill of flirtation thinly veiled as antagonism, followed by a clandestine affair with a moody, enigmatic, mysterious, distant, enticing male. Some women just cannot help chasing after men like that. 

(Layla) a sweet, warm, utterly charming man at home who adored her
But she didn't love him. To her, he was boring. That's all. 

Wanda:
Great Geoffrey scene
In the taxi, his face says it all. The little quiver of the lip when he sees Katherine return is heartbreaking. This woman does not deserve him. I do however. Geoffrey, don't get suicidal. I'm here, I'm here. 

Layla:
(Arami) She simply didn't love him.
I never even considered that. I guess I didn't think she would have married someone she found boring, but it does make everything fit. Doesn't it? Thanks for the insight. She didn't love him, that's just the saddest thing I've ever heard. 

Strange film then. If the husband was supposed to be boring and inconsequential, why did they make him so utterly charming? Perhaps Colin is just not capable of portraying a man without some attractiveness. Perhaps they never intended for his character to be so likeable. Do you think this is something that Colin just slipped in without their noticing? 

Wanda:
(Arami) She simply didn't love him. 
(Layla) I never even considered that.
Remember the scene where Geoffrey is talking about it being their anniversary and he says: "She was always crying on my shoulder. I finally convinced her to settle for my shoulder." I think that is exactly what she did, settle. He had always been there, in good times or bad. She finally thought, oh why not. I think she loved him in a way, but certainly did not share his deep devotion. Poor boy didn't even realize it :'-( 

Jana:
(Wanda) In the taxi, his face says it all. The little quiver of the lip when he sees Katherine return is heartbreaking.
This is my favorite moment in the movie and it shows how incredibly talented Colin is. Without any dialogue and with just a subtle change of expression, he shows so much anguish. 

(Layla) Did anyone notice how thoroughly entranced he looked in that scene by the fire when his wife had finished telling her story and he was speculating approvingly.
Yes, he does look very droolable in this scene. But to get the reward of this scene we have to endure the "No Bananas" dance. Not our DB's most dignified moment, I fear. 

Winter:
(Wanda) I think that is exactly what she did, settle....Poor boy didn't even realize it :'-(
Well, he might've realized it deep down inside but secretly hoped that, if he demonstrated his love for her enough, she would eventually love him back. Classic case of one person bearing the weight for two. In some ways, he might've settled too, i.e., marrying the one person you love, knowing that they don't feel the same. 

I remember Colin talking about his relationship with Meg Tilly. Didn't he say that you can love/care about a person to the point of not really caring about anything else (i.e., putting your career on hold during a potentially promising time)? I think the same can be said for Geoffrey Clifton. He loved Katherine so much that he forgot about his own need to be loved back. He may have just run away and married Katherine without realizing the big picture. 

Kate:
It's been a while since I read The English Patient, but I'm sure there's some stuff in the book about the Katherine/ Geoffrey relationship which makes it sound much less like a love match and more like a marriage of convenience, especially relating to his need to have a wife to cover up his role as an intelligence agent. Has anyone got a copy handy? 

Laura:
Kate, you are correct. Katharine tell Almásy that she married him to cover up his role in detailing the desert for Britain. I almost read into the story that the romance was sort of encouraged. He leaves her alone in the desert for days. But I don't think it was love between Almásy and Katharine. It was control. In the book, she used to beat the crap out of him. She stabbed him with a fork. She would slap him just for the hell of it. 

If you have not read the book, do so. The movie and book are different. I met Michael Ondaatje in November 1996, when The English Patient was shown at a benefit. He said it was a war novel and not a romance. I found the romance between Hana and Kip to be more satisfying. 

Karen:
Minor clarification: I inadvertently left out a word when I was disparaging RF earlier. The correct description is "lizard eyed and pencil legged." That is one man who I have no desire to see naked and should never wear shorts! 

(Wanda) In the taxi, his face says it all.
You are so right! The pathos of that scene. Rip my heart out, why don't you? 

(Kate) a marriage of convenience, especially relating to his need to have a wife to cover up his role as an intelligence agent
I thought that might have been the case, but it would seem that Geoffrey had real feelings for her even though she didn't have the same for him. I mean if it were a charade, his kamikaze dive makes no sense whatsoever. 

Nan:
(Winter) the Christmas party...and goes looking for her after she's done the deed with Mr. Lizard Legs. I just about melted when he called her his "little sausage" and gathered her up in his arms
Poor fellow, such a terribly sad scene. He knows exactly what's happened, I think, and chooses to ignore his instincts. 

(Layla) why on earth did that stupid woman cheat on that tormentingly lovely man? 
(Arami) She simply didn't love him.
Agreed. Or rather, she wasn't in love with him. 

(Arami) The thrill of flirtation thinly veiled as antagonism, followed by a clandestine affair with a moody, enigmatic, mysterious, distant, enticing male. Some women just cannot help chasing after men like that.
Hey, antagonism is an important part of foreplay! If Colin hadn't played Geoffrey, I don't know if I would have been as sympathetic to his plight. It's because I like Colin that I feel so badly for him. Let's face it, the character of Geoffrey may be a kind and loving husband, but compared to Almásy, he's bland. And for the record, I like Ralph Fiennes. I don't find him in the least bit lizardy (though I find the description quite funny). I think he's very attractive and quite sexy. This certainly doesn't mean that I like him any more than Colin, just that I have easygoing hormones. 

Also I don't think the character of Geoffrey is very well-developed. They spend too much time on too many other things. Perhaps if we knew more about Geoffrey, then we could feel more for him. That doesn't really apply to us here, because our sympathy is with Colin. I mean for all those people out there who were hoping Almásy and Katharine would end up happily ever after. 

(Laura) But I don't think it was love between Almásy and Katharine. It was control.
I always felt the relationship between Katherine and Almásy was based entirely on lust. This is probably why I could care less when she dies. During that big scene where he's carrying her out the cave and everyone else is weeping, I can't find it in me to care at all. Personally, I think the saddest scene is when Almásy pushes the morphine toward Hana, basically asking her to kill him. Poor, sweet girl loses everyone! Now, that's sad. 

(Laura) One thing, if you have not read the book, do so. The movie and book are different.
Really? I never even considered the book. I like the film well enough, but I'm not in love with it.

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