TEP was all about nationality and how having to identify yourself with a nation gets you in trouble. However, we live in a world in which where you come from is everything. Almásy couldn't get to Katherine in time to save her because he didn't have the right papers or have the right-sounding last name. Geoffrey was the tool of the British government, having to hide his identity as he risked his life making maps for the Allies, as it fought against the others. Almásy was tragic in that he tried not to live by the rules of working in the name of the nation, but instead, on his own. Alas, he can't escape from that. 

Kate:
(Nan) I was thinking that he should walk around with his hair down all the time
I did notice. I liked the way he let it down at night and became a totally different person. 

Bethan:
(Arami) All these nuances were lost or sacrificed in the film...Does anyone know if Ondaatje was happy with these changes?
Agreed. I thought that Ondaatje's original version of the Katherine/Geoffrey/Almásy relationship was far superior to the Minghella interpretation and much more believable. It also covered themes of honour, friendship, betrayal, trust, etc, which were barely touched on in the movie. 

Laura:
(Arami) Does anyone know if Ondaatje was happy with these changes?
Ondaatje had a funny story that he told about the rights to his story being sold. In North Carolina, a suspected serial killer cut out the first three pages of the novel and used them to write a note to the police. He poked out the first letter in the beginning of each word. Ondaatje got wind of it when he read it in the newspaper; right under that it was announced that Miramax had bought the rights to the story (apparently, the publisher neglected to tell Ondaatje). He thought it quite funny because this book was deemed not movie material. He would not part with the story unless he had input. Anthony Minghella came up with an outline of the novel and presented it to Ondaatje. He was thrilled with what he did. 

I may be the only one here, but I think Minghella did a great job with what he had to work from. This book, for those of you who read it, seemed impossible to become a movie. I understand why changes were made. It was necessary in the telling of the story. When going over the part with Clifton coming to the Gilf Kebir, it said that he was at Oxford, finished classes, got married, and headed to the desert. 

Almásy was much older than Katherine in the book. He must have been at least 40. She had to be early 20s. 

Heide:
Yeah, the movie is excruciatingly long, beginning with the excruciatingly long opening shot of someone doing the drawing with the brush. Took forever and I only get through it without fast forwarding so I can watch Colin's name in the credits. Still, just as Titanic can win a Best Picture Oscar because of its overall effort and effects, despite so-so acting and story, so can TEP win for its grand effort plus spectacular acting despite a less than coherent story line. Even so, I still found the movie easier to absorb than the book. 

I liked Hana and Kip very much. They were the warmth of the film and I'll include Geoffrey there. He brought life and fun to the desert. Do you think they sat around playing games before he got there? I scoffed at show-off Katherine's entertainment. These men must have been sorely in need of female companionship to find her narration entertaining. I honestly thought the "Banana" song and dance was cute. Santa kind of dampened my lust though. 

Cute Geoffrey. "Uxorious, excessive love of one's wife." Adorable grin after he kisses her. He looks delicious in his dinner jacket but I especially like him in his braces at the office. 

I believe Katherine when she says her marriage is not a fiction. 

My sympathies are never with Katherine but I do feel for Almásy. I think Katherine would be prone to many affairs. She tantalizes and constantly flirts with him. He fights it. I think she even enjoys tormenting A with the expression of her guilt. 

(Winter) TEP was all about nationality...Almásy was tragic in that he tried not to live by the rules of working in the name of the nation, but instead, on his own.
Very good, you brought the point of the book back to me. I remember thinking the same thing. The movie, however, does not convey this and sought to portray a grand love affair and perhaps to contrast it with the more innocent, "pure" one between Hana and Kip. 

Caroline:
May I interrupt ladies? You were asking about Ondaatje's input in to the film. I once saw an interview with Ondaatje and Minghella, which made it clear that the two of them worked closely together on the set and were very happy with the changes in the story line. However, the interviewer, a very smart lady, asked an absolute killer question, something like: "I can see why Almásy fell in love with Katherine, but why on earth did she fall in love with him?" Both men looked absolutely blank. Ondaatje then said, rather shame-facedly, that he really had no idea. 

Personally, I think this explains why everyone is so ambivalent about the book and the movie. Plus the fact that anyone who would give up Colin for anybody needs to see a shrink! 

Nan:
(Caroline) "I can see why Almásy fell in love with Katherine, but why on earth did she fall in love with him?"
Cracks me up that neither had an answer for the above question. I still believe that neither Katherine nor Almásy was in love, just lust (at least in the movie). 

Lucie:
In the book, when the count gets ready to leave her to get help, she makes him promise to come and get her and if she is dead to make sure that her body is sent back to England to be buried in her garden, among the flowers in the place she loves, with the things she loves. She tells him that she really did love Geoffrey. 

Renate:
It seems to be a general opinion that Geoffrey already knows/suspects that Katherine betrayed him when he meets Almushy and Katherine rejects him in the marzipan scene. Or even that he knows Katherine will betray him when she dances with Almushy.

I believe that he may be frustrated at Katherine's rejection but has no suspicion at all that something may be going on until he observes her from the car on her way to the pencil-legged lizard with the rolling accent.

Did anyone else see the parallels between the characters of Almushy and Geoffrey on one side and Darcy and Bingley? On the one side, the dark, enigmatic, haughty, cynic, moody, proud aristocrat with a high opinion of his own value—just the type women fall for :-). The other one an easy, friendly, gentle, polite, sociable friend for everyday use.

More parallels, anyone? Contradictions?

When I read discussions about TEP I cannot help wonder how different the discussion and our opinions would be if the casting had been a bit different and Colin played the Count. I am convinced that the movie would rise tremendously in most droolers opinion :-). And, yes, I admit, I am awfully prejudiced myself.

Karen:
(Heide) I believe Katherine when she says her marriage is not a fiction.
But that can mean something very simple, i.e., she is stating a fact that she and Geoffrey are legally married, much in the same way that she is stating the fact that Geoffrey is not a buffoon in reality. Laura read the"whirlwind" courtship section to me and the way that little passage sounded to me was that it was arranged for purposes of Geoffrey's cover.

(Winter) TEP was all about the nationality and how having to identify yourself with a nation gets you in trouble. 
(Heide) The movie, however, does not convey this and sought to portray a grand love affair
I think the real meaning of the book was totally overlooked when they made the movie. It is not a strong nor believable love story (K/A); it comes across as pure lust and nothing more. However, your comments *almost* make me want to watch the movie again with those thoughts in mind (somebody, please slap me) to see if my own preference toward simple romances clouded my views. But on the other hand, I shouldn't have to work so hard to get to the meaning of this movie and for that I fault the director.

(Caroline) Ondaatje and Minghella...worked closely together on the set
I don't doubt that this was said in the interview but in reality the writer of the original work is the last person anybody wants on a set. The next to last person would be the screenwriter if someone other than the original author. If Ondaatje was actually there, it would be highly unusual. The only time a screenwriter is welcomed on the set is when he and the director are one and the same.

(Renate) how different the discussion and our opinion of the movie would be if the casting had been a bit different and Colin played the Count.
I've often wondered this as well; the chicken and the egg riddle. However, I tend to think that Colin would do a much better job as the Count. He has so much more depth than that other guy.

(Renate) I am convinced that the movie would rise tremendously in most droolers opinion :-).
Just think of the bath scene. Whoops, I fell off my chair.

(Caroline) Both men looked absolutely blank. Ondaatje then said, rather shame-facedly, that he really had no idea.
I think Ondaatje's inability to answer this proves circumstantially that he was not involved. A writer would have an answer to such a simple question.

Caroline:
(Karen) the writer of the original work is the last person anybody wants on a set
That was my point. It was not an interview designed to promote the movie. It was one of those "Making of" things about a Canadian author, who having written a worldwide bestseller went on to sit next to the director every day of the shooting. A lot of the footage showed the filming of the Cairo scenes in Venice and the Tuscany scenes too. It was on a Canadian arts channel, and Ondaatje and Minghella were the main characters of the program. They made the point that it's an unusual thing to do.

Bethan:
(Renate) Did anyone else see the parallels between the characters of Almushy and Geoffrey on one side and Darcy and Bingley?
Ah, but Geoffrey had hidden depths, which Katherine knew. He was only playing the Bingley-ish overgrown public-school- boy type. He was really a very competent pilot and a British intelligence officer, carrying out potentially dangerous aerial surveillance. And he obviously trusted his wife. Why else would he leave her alone in the desert in the company of men? The screenplay just isn't convincing, unless you take Katherine as a flirt who wants a sexual fling. It's the only interpretation that works.

Re: the novel and whether Katherine and Geoffrey's marriage was real (i.e., based on love)

I can only repeat the line (which I like) about "the husband they both loved until they fell in love with each other." I thought that in the novel Katherine and Geoffrey loved each other at first, and he continued to adore her, although she outgrew him.

Layla:
(Caroline) Ondaatje then said, rather shame-facedly, that he really had no idea.
That sounds just like a man, doesn't it?

(Karen) I tend to think that Colin would do a much better job as the Count. He has so much more depth than that other guy.
Absolutely! I've thought about this a lot. Ralph Fiennes seems to depend so heavily on the script and his vocal inflections to express himself and IMHO has a somewhat limited range of facial expressions. Colin on the other hand has an extremely broad range of facial expressions and can convey an extraordinary amount of things without any voice or script support at all. If Colin *had* done the Count, I honestly believe he would have added enough subtleties of his own to make the love story completely believable.

Renate:
(Bethan) Ah, but Geoffrey had hidden depths....He was only playing the Bingley-ish overgrown public-school-boy-type.
You seem to imply that Bingley was a nothing? I always thought this character as portrayed by Crispin Bonham-Carter was such a likeable and valuable person, who may have some hidden depths himself! It was a pity for him (both character and actor) to stand in the huge shadow of the overwhelming Darcy (both character and actor) for he could have carried a similar miniseries by himself. In a modern version (let's say taking place in the forties) of P&P, Bingley could very likely have been a pilot and officer. But you are right insofar as it is impossible to imagine Bingley doing a suicide plus killing for revenge (let alone his wife Jane shagging a Hungarian Count!).

(Bethan) the line...about "the husband they both loved until they fell in love with each other."
That sounds very promising, but I don't think anything can make me take up the novel again. In the film there was no hint of a friendship between the three of them or the two men. Now, that would have given the desert love story a wonderful dimension and would have suggested that Almásy is capable of a wider range of human emotions (not just amour fou) and that would make it easier to bring him together with the later patient. Come to think of it, both characters don't seem to have much in common. The desert Almásy has no real depth whatsoever, but the English patient has. Or do I read too much into him?

I think TEP suffers from too many interesting characters, some of them (the desert trio) not well-developed. You just have to take for granted what happens without getting to know why (if it's not the hormones).

Laura:
I was thinking that one of the great things about TEP is Colin Firth in a tux. Can this guy wear a tux or what!

Lucie:
When he is sitting in the car waiting for her and tearing hearts out of the paper makes me want to cry. He again does more acting without opening his mouth than anyone I've ever seen. He has the most expressive eyes. RF is knock kneed and looks dreadful in shorts but I am biased. I don't like him, his eyes are dead.

Gi:
I was talking to a couple of co-workers about Colin Firth and was pleased that they had noticed him in TEP and found him "very goog-looking."

Bethan:
(Gi) I was talking to a couple of co-workers about Colin Firth and was pleased that they had noticed him in TEP and found him "very goog-looking."
Goog-looking?! :-) I'm glad to hear it though! I think that one of the things that really irked me about TEP was the thought of all these thousands of women rushing to see RF while Colin played a role, the essential function of which was to be overlooked. After Darcy, it just seemed a tad ironic! I hope he was noticed by a few more!

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